More on Ryan Karben
Going back to his Yeshiva University days, there’s an early student-newspaper profile of him:
However, Karben also noted that life as a politician could be difficult. “Being in the public eye is demanding. Those who want a power surge should stick their finger in a socket. The time and devotion for this job is underestimated and undervalued.” Currently, Karben is not sure how high up the political ladder he wishes to climb, but, he added, “That is my wife’s determination.”
As with so many sexual harassment/sexual abuse cases, the comments from those who “knew” a while ago are pouring in, from those who attended school with him and had an “open secret” that he’d aggressively proposition fellow students in such a manner that they’re not surprised at all at these allegations of harassment.
I’ve been continually shocked to hear from people who were kids in Baruch Lanner’s schools and had all sorts of evidence that he was fondling young women, but didn’t do anything about it. All kinds of people who were kids in Yehuda Kolko’s circles tell me they’d “known things,” too. And none of them told their parents, or other people who could intervene. And it goes on, and on.
I don’t know what makes these people act this way. I’ve been wondering if it’s a New York thing, because that certainly wasn’t how I grew up.
Yuter wonders if there’s some culpability for those who could’ve stopped these things earlier. Yes. And there are definitely ways to go about stopping it.
May 19th, 2006 at 12:56 pm
Steven, as someone who was told about Lanner a few years before the story broke- as something “everyone knew”- I’ve thought about this, and come to a couple of conclusions:
1. Obviously, I can’t do anything with second-hand information.
2. He was, I was told, no longer working with kids. (Not quite true, as it turned out.)
3. Somewhat perversely, when there’s something that “everyone knows,” we just naturally assume that there’s no problem. After all, if everyone knows, that means the OU and NCSY leadership know. And presumably (wrong again, of course), they’d do something about it. Or if everyone knows, then people will be safe.
Same here, to an extent. Also, it should be stressed that coming on to fellow college students (for example) is not exactly illegal, and one 19-year old can stand up to another. On the other hand, I had a classmate who did claim some sort of abuse, but said he was only going to make it public at a time when it would prove most injurious to Karben’s career. I guess he never got the chance.
May 19th, 2006 at 1:20 pm
Does he daven at tendlers shul?
May 19th, 2006 at 1:41 pm
No, he dovens in Wesley Hills. His mother Dovens in Tendler’s Shul
May 19th, 2006 at 2:50 pm
A little unfair. Karben isn’t accused of doing anything with children or of breaking the law. Propositioning adults is not anything like raping children.
May 19th, 2006 at 3:26 pm
Tendler knew first hand about Ryan at least seven years and did nothing about this.
Now it makes sense, he gave Ryan the boys and he took the girls!
May 19th, 2006 at 3:55 pm
Noname - You’re right; it’s not raping children. But it is sexual harassment.
May 19th, 2006 at 4:56 pm
To paraphrase Triumph the Insult Comic, I banged him…he liked it..hard…
just kidding…but seriously, can anyone be surprised by putzes trying to shtup themselves into positions of power just for the purpose of shtupping with their putzes…i think some of these guys and girls do it without even a conscious undertanding of their motivation…this applies to rabbis, youth directors, politicians, etc…
May 19th, 2006 at 5:25 pm
“As with so many sexual harassment/sexual abuse cases,”
“You’re right; it’s not raping children. But it is sexual harassment.”
i dont even think sexual harrassment is a crime. Is it? I think there are only civil penalties.
May 20th, 2006 at 1:31 pm
Steven I. Weiss Says:
May 19th, 2006 at 3:55 pm
Noname - You’re right; it’s not raping children. But it is sexual harassment.
Steven-
I think you’re being a little disingenuous here by lumping Karben together with the likes of Kolko. Even if it’s true that classmates had suspicions about Karben’s sexuality or even morality, what would be the point in “stopping him.” As another commenter has already mentioned, he clearly wasn’t guilty of sexual harassment in YU or Frisch. And I haven’t heard of anyone, at least not in ur community, who claims to have known about the harassment for years.
You may have a point as to why people are quiet in the face of abuse. (My own explanation would be that they have very convenient- and thus suspect- memories, and that they probably didn’t have nearly as much first hand knowledge as they now claim). Nevertheless it seems to me that this discussion would be more relevant to a Kolko thread than to the Karben one.
May 20th, 2006 at 3:55 pm
What happened to innocent until proven guilty?
All that you have on this guy in terms of his past is rumor and inuendo; just because something is printed in the Rockland Journal news or NY Post doesn’t mean it is true!
Shame on you for being a peddler of Loshon Harah!
May 20th, 2006 at 10:27 pm
I agree with “Neighbor”
Loy Saylaych Ruchil B’amecha.
In any case the whole idea behind sexual harassment is ridiculous. Why should there be even civil penalties for making comments to a woman? Women in the 21st century have too much power.
In the goold old days, a husband can beat his wife to a pulp, and she couldnt do nothing. Granted, this is wrong. But now even making a stupid fuckin comment to a woman is like oh wow how could he. bunch of liberals.
grow up ladies. maybe if you dont dress provocatively with the intent to grab as much attention as possible, then maybe just maybe that can help with getting less comments.
oh, back to Karben. Unless you are the jurymemeber and hear both sides, with all available evidence stop talking about it like you know.
maybe its a republican conspiracy anyway?
May 20th, 2006 at 11:13 pm
Simpleton & KJ - I’m not saying his conduct was equivalent to Kolko’s, but the common thread is abuse of power to sexually exploit others, with some clearly knowing that they did such things without trying to stop it. Look at Nachum’s comment: YU guys knew.
May 21st, 2006 at 12:13 am
This all comes from the sheigetz tendler because he was against METZITZAH BE’PEH
this is his punishment
May 21st, 2006 at 12:17 am
JO JO, he is accused of harrasing *men*. None of your “dressing provocatively” blame-the-victim stuff applies here. (Oh, and I’m pretty far from liberal.)
Steve, I should point out that I have no idea what the one student I knew was alleging- whether Karben had actually done something to him or, as is more likely, that he merely came on to him.
May 21st, 2006 at 6:40 am
We don’t have to defend Brian but we don’t have to convict him either. Jewish people are pretty decent perveyours(spelling) of misinformation. Let’s give the man and His 3 daughters and wife a break.
Just because there are grumblings about his past that doesn’t change his present….He’s a father and husband . And anyone who is a parent (and I am) wants to protect his children. The attacks and threats and accusations shouldn’t be comming from us now. Let’s wait and keep our opinions to ourselves
May 21st, 2006 at 8:43 am
Steven-
I still think you are missing my point (unless I am missing yours). Are you suggesting that while Karben was at YU there were rumors of Harassment? What would that even mean? I understood that there were rumors regarding his sexuality, and therefore I repeat my question: What should anyone who heard those rumors have done?
You wrote:
“with some clearly knowing that they did such things without trying to stop it. Look at Nachum’s comment: YU guys knew. ”
Again I ask: Knew what?
May 21st, 2006 at 12:20 pm
What’s all the “tzimmis” about—-after all Abraham Lincoln slept in the same bed with a number of men—everybody is “shrieing” gay sex—would they prefer if Ryun had sad sex?
May 21st, 2006 at 12:23 pm
no moderation
May 21st, 2006 at 12:38 pm
Karben is innocent until proven guilty?? Ha. Then why resign, why don’t answer the phone? He should come out swinging if he is innocent. My guess is he is afraid even more will come out. But it was only fooling around with an intern. Civil matter, blah blah. Too bad he didn’t follow Bill Clinton’s lead and make a pass at a female intern. Bill pulls down millions now for speeches. Mc Greavey had it exactly right. Admit it, divorce your wife. Wonder if Karben got his lovers any state no show jobs. Or is that the next revelation.
May 22nd, 2006 at 8:13 am
uh oh uh oh…… so I guess nowadays being gay (karben) liking women (tendler) and beating and molesting children (lanner) are all morally equivalent. way to go, stupid, backwards, sexually repressed orthodox system.
May 22nd, 2006 at 8:42 am
as someone who has lived through the lanner nightmare from the inception.. as a kid who was violently physically abused, as someone who was harrassed both at and after the beit din, as somepne behind the scenes with the willig apology( and unfortunate innoculation) and now as a happily and aware father of two beautiful children.. i can speak with a certain assuredness about why kids dont or do not tall their parents when bad things happen. Put it this way, you are all asking the right questions, but doing so as mature evolved ADULTS. Kids dont think this way, and often when confronted with a situation that they dont understand, they bury it because the implications are too painful. Was it my fault? did i lead him on? is it just me.. because everyone else loves him etc.? it is our jobs as parents to protect our kids and to create an enviroment where they can feel comfortable to speak out. For various reasons our parents did not. may be it was the times, maybe it was an individual family thin. either way, we must look forward.
I know karben only in a very cursory manner, and he may or may not be guilty of the alleged impropriaties (sic) but the issue is not whetehr he diddled some staffers.. but rather that he may have used his position of influence to control other people. The world shoudl not work that way. If true, he should resign and get help. If not, I hope he can clear his name.Interesting to note howver, is that he too was very involved in ETZ Chaim NCSY well before lanner was tossed out of the national offices. what connection did they have, if any? what happened to him as a kid that would lead to such innaprpriate behavior as an adult? THIS IS WHAT MUST BE STOPPED SO THE FUTURE GENERATIONS CAN MOVE FORWARD.
May 22nd, 2006 at 9:57 am
big deal sexual harrasment? if an adult is harrasing another adult just push him off say no end of story
why do you have to go public ? only beacuse they wana make money at the time he made his moves towards that guy he accepted him and enjoyed the sex .now he wants the other side as well
May 22nd, 2006 at 10:24 am
As this once again proves, no one ever knows anyone… I am sure even his wife is surprised. But, anyone that has known Ryan in the past (myself included) knew all along that he was a two faced self centered snob. Perfect for a politician if you will. He puts on a show, never has to worry about anyone really knowing him and continues to be a real schmuck in private. I for one never liked him and never came close to voting for him. Guess I was right.
May 22nd, 2006 at 1:49 pm
Get a life everyone. You should all be trying to improve your own lifes instead of trying to bad mouthing others. What the hell do you know anyway - you are all a bunch of weak pigs who thrive on the gossip of others. Shame on you.
May 22nd, 2006 at 6:10 pm
notagentile really called it. Amazing how quickly claims on this blog morph from allegations of harassment to molesting small boys. And really amazing that Mr. Canonist still doesn’t get the difference… being outed is not the same as raping children.
May 23rd, 2006 at 2:10 am
And now this non-allegation has morphed into an upcoming Awareness Center web page… presumably because any gay Orthodox Jew must be a sex criminal.
While we’re waiting for your response, please don’t be offended if we start investigating whether you and your fiancee are shomer negiah… Can’t be too careful, you know….
May 23rd, 2006 at 4:42 am
Nachum - You used the word “abuse” in your first post, so I thought you were talking about the same thing. If not, you shouldn’t have used the word.
Simpleton - The YU kids chiming in aren’t saying it was “harassment,” obviously, but that his propositions could be quite aggressive such that they weren’t surprised at all that he would have harassed interns.
Shabsi - I’m not intending to place blame on victims with my above posts, but all those other kids who always seemed to “know” what was going on back in the day. There are obvious reasons why victims might fail to come forward, and parents do need to be very helpful in finding ways to communicate with their children in the hope that they might. But why did all the other kids who knew about Lanner, knew about Kolko, knew about Karben not do something to prevent it? Admittedly, it’s a more complicated situation for Karben, since for Lanner and Kolko they would just have to tell their parents, but kids intervene with their friends when they develop drug problems, and similarly should intervene with their friends when their propositioning people begins to take on a tone of over-aggressiveness.
notagentile - I didn’t say that they’re morally equivalent, as I’ve repeatedly noted above. They are roughly equally preventable if kids had stepped up and done the right thing back in the day.
“Henry Kissinger” aka Larry Yudelson - You’re such an idiot. Of course I get the difference, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t endeavor to stop both abuse and harassment. And to suggest that I’m biased against gay Orthodox Jews is to indicate you know almost nothing about me and my advocacy — but that would just be consistent with your general status of an Internet troll these days. Investigating Rachel and I? You’re such a crazy old man.
May 23rd, 2006 at 6:09 am
Steven- You said:
The YU kids chiming in aren’t saying it was “harassment,� obviously, but that his propositions could be quite aggressive such that they weren’t surprised at all that he would have harassed interns.
and:
and similarly should intervene with their friends when their propositioning people begins to take on a tone of over-aggressiveness.
Sorry, but I don’t buy it. Can you provide any specifics of this over-agressiveness in YU that should have been a tip off to a future of Harassment? Come on! I’ll acknowledge that Karben may have been a pompous jerk, but if we needed to sound the alarms for everyone of those that we encountered, we’d have a constant cacophony of meanngless ringing in our ears. So again I ask: What have you heard that makes you say: “Why didn’t someone in YU warn us about Karben?”
And the question remains significant, because I will again contend that the answer to your original post’s question is that “everyone knew” is all too often an exaggeration or outright lie. For the record, I’ve heard from countless people who were shocked by the Karben news, and I am suggesting that plenty of good people from NJ NCSY in the 80s or from YTT were genuinely in the dark about Lanner and Kolko respectively. If your question is going to make a constructive difference it needs to be much more narrow and focussed, and more certain about its claims regarding who knew what.
Thanks for taking the time to post on all this and respond to comments. We need to get this fixed, and fast.
May 23rd, 2006 at 6:22 am
Simpleton - It’s from a bunch of people who’ve contacted me and said as much, and this post is in part an intended rebuke at them; they’re basically telling me that his behavior was so egregious that they’re not surprised at all — so where were they when they could have done something earlier on?
I don’t think most people in NCSY or YTT knew about Lanner or Kolko, but a great many people have in public or in personal comments to me said that they had heard about it as children. My question to them always is: why didn’t you tell your parents? What’s most filthy is what I’ve heard from many in the Lanner case that seems to attach a fabulousness to the claim that “everyone knew.” They reflect with humor upon how “everyone knew” that during fire drills Lanner and this or that girl stayed in the building, how even announcements over the loudspeaker from him would intentionally mispronounce a girl’s name to give it sexual overtones for those “in the know.” And these kids didn’t do anything about it; they didn’t think there was any reason to make it stop. And I’ve heard from many — though the stories are obviously fewer at this point — who “knew” about Kolko, and again didn’t tell their parents.
There’s a real problem in the way kids “in the know” about these abusive situations fail to communicate it to their parents or other authority figures (and in essence fail to see it as something sufficiently wrong to do something about), and as I said in my post, I think there’s a certain New York-area flavor to the attitude behind it.
May 23rd, 2006 at 8:36 am
I don’t know about the New York flavor- We’ll leave that for a different time. I still think we may be painting a picture of this particulr reporting problem with two wide a brush. My understanding is that ANY sexual advances made by Karben to a staffer would be dangerously close to harassment. Therefore, I am unaware of any rumors even NOW of any allegations of sexual advances that were overly aggresive. And if that’s the case, I certainly am unaware of such cases in YU. Again, what I’m asking is: What is this definition you are using for overly “aggressive”? What is he alleged to have done in YU? That will go a long way towards identifying the nature of any reporting problem in our community
May 23rd, 2006 at 10:59 am
From my limited knowledge, Ryan’s behavior in YU wasn’t harrassing, it was just aggressive, locker-room-style antics.
A good-natured trash-talk session might end with “Wanna bet mine is bigger than yours? Take it out! Right now!” And that sort of thing.
The Karben’s friends and neighbors have said, off the record, that Ryan drinks heavily and enjoys talking about sex. It’s sad, but clear, that these behaviors got him in trouble. I don’t think he was victimizing anyone or attempting to use his office as a means of coercing or controlling anyone. He was just a randy frat boy who didn’t outgrow it.
May 23rd, 2006 at 12:02 pm
Ah, my little Atlanta boy.
You really, really just don’t get it.
If you’re a closeted Orthodox politico in a corrupt state assembly, “harrassment” may very well be a synonymn for “blackmail attempt.”
Do you think a closeted Orthodox pol is really leaning on his interns?
Or do you think harassment — such a he-said, she-said situation — was the terms of choice in a blackmail situation which other folks in the Assembly were just all too happy to go along with?
May 23rd, 2006 at 7:12 pm
ok, everybody can talk all they want. but it’s really quite simple…
Sheldon Silver: lower east side boy that’s VERY close and VERY dedicated to Feinstein/Tendler mishpacha.
Shelley Karben(Ryan Karben’s mother): KNH devotee that’s VERY against Tendler and VERY loud about it.
Ryan Karben: regular pervert. NOT gay. makes stupid immature perverted comments cuz he’s got a VERY large ego (and who wouldn’t with such success and potential?) and cuz he’s got a VERY large mouth.
and this is how it all goes down…
Sheldon Silver happens to be arguably the most powerful person in Albany. He also happens to be quite openly peeved about the Tendler/Feinstein name getting dragged through all kinds of mud all around the country. So, instead of outright attempting Mrs. Karben’s life, he takes an already touchy subject of Ryan’s big mouth and uses it to his advantage to maybe instill upon her how much he would like her to shut the hell up. And yes, poor old Ryan K. did have it coming. I mean, besides how much he loves the bottle, he just has to stop making perverted jokes. Noone in Albany or Rockland ever thought they were funny. Oh, well that’s not true, I’ve seen some chassidim(well, they come from chassidish backgrounds but they still haven’t shaved off their beards or payos yet, so i dunno if i should call them chassidim or not) laugh at him. And yes, my assessments of Ryan are first-hand. How? I’ve made many a l’chaim with him at kiddushes, sholom zochors, and even a scotch show. So yes, I saw it coming. But I never thought it’d come like this. I mean, Sheldon, come on man, this is way too out in the open buddy. You’d expect something alot better from someone so powerful. And let’s see who you go after next. I’ve already heard speculation about some dude named Pomeranz who I’m not too familiar with, but I assume his name will become famous soon enough. well, the doody’s about to hit the fan, so enjoy people!
May 23rd, 2006 at 7:41 pm
In the words of Tony Soprano……”He’s a faaaaaaaaaagggggg!” Personally Id turn his gay ass over to Phil Leotardo and give him the Vito Spatafore treatment (a pool cue up his ass) LOL!! All you fuckers can hem and haw….this is McGreevey Part 2. Except this time he has a jewcap on his head. The world is laughing and so am I.
May 24th, 2006 at 8:26 am
I CANNOT believe the reactions here. That Karben can be compared to monsters like Kolko and Lanner is beyond belief!!!! As a adult survivor of childhood sexual abuse I can tell you that I live in pain everyday of my life. Yes I have gone on to marry and have children, but the pain does not dissipate.
The allegations against Karben is that he had homosexual trysts, porno parties and/or hit on male interns. We’re talking about consenting adults, NOT INNOCENT CHILDREN. Is it morally right for him to use his position of power to “hit on” his aides, NO. But adults have the choice of saying NO. Children dont!
about a little rachmanus for this man, his wife and his children whose name has been smeared all over the place. Our frum world leaves no space for gay activity…BUT GUESS WHAT…there’s plenty of it behind closed doors. If people chose to engage in gay behavior thats there issue to deal with, between them and hashem, and them and their families.
Does any of you know what the Torah says about public embarrassment?? Stop passing judgement. The only real wrong this man might have committed was to use his position of power…SO HE STEPPED DOWN. (A lot better than what Bill Clinton did and got away with). Leave him and his family alone to deal with their own tsorres.
KOLKO AND LANNER CANNOT REMEDY THEIR WRONGS, Ryan Karben can. Shame on any of you who can compare monsters to Karben!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
May 24th, 2006 at 10:48 am
Some of you are touching on reality, others speculating. What matters on this page are the questions about why children who experienced abusive moments with any or all of these men (I personally have first hand knowledge of two mentioned) do not say anything.
My answer. Fear. Whether it is an adult male, or an older male child behaving inappropriately with younger children… the victims are afraid, embarrased, ashamed. I know four people who have had experiences with some of these men and all, as children, said nothing but tried to avoid the men when possible. They did not tell their parents because it was scary. They were afraid not just of the person abusing them but afraid of what they had heard, seen, learned. It is overwhelmingly scary when someone approaches you.
I believe the issue is the Orthodox community does does not at all prepare children for this. Never, before my experiences, had ANYONE, not a loving parent, friend, teacher, rabbi mentioned anything relating to this. No one ever told me that adults or older children should not discuss x,y,z with me. No one ever said that if an adult ever tried to touch me, I should say.
Totally unprepared and shocked - children simply have no idea what to do.
Clearly these men have problems most likely experienced something in childhood that harmed their ability to behave properly. The only way to stop this in our community is to discuss it and… to teach children what is NOT ok.
Pretending this doesnt exist hurts all involved.
June 5th, 2006 at 10:23 pm
I was a classmate of Ryan’s at Yeshiva University - and lived down the hall from him in Rubin Hall. I too was a victim of his unwanted sexual advances. I recently recalled a conversation that took place with several people that lived on the floor with me. We were discussing Ryan’s (then) aspiring political career - I believed that he had the potential to “go all the way” - but my friends pointed out that Ryan had far too many skeletons in his closet, and was bound to f**k it up somewhere along the line.
Karben is an embarassment - to his family, his constituents, and more importantly - the entire Orthodox world. I’m glad that he finally self-destructed - many people saw this coming for a long time.
To answer Steven’s question - why did we not “do something” about it? Frankly, I never saw the point. Why would I, as a freshmen from out-of-town, who didn’t know anyone - want to butt heads with this guy by bringing charges against him? Fortunately, he’s not a violent offender (that I know of) - and while I was disgusted by his conduct - I didn’t care enough to expose him for the animal that he is. Karben did more than an adequate job of showing the world exactly what kind of person he is.
June 7th, 2006 at 8:33 am
His sexual orientation is irrelevent.
His sexual orientation is not the issue.
The question is: Did he make advances to someone in his employ, or someone who is an intern?
If an improper advance or advances did NOT occur why did he resign before the ethics committee had a chance to do fact finding?
And if, as he claims, it is all political, why didn’t he stand and fight?
Bob Rhodes
June 16th, 2006 at 12:57 pm
Hey Rhodes, why are you supporting all the downzoning in Ramapo? shame on you! We want to preserve our beautiful habitat and you want to fill it with hordes of hasidics!
July 24th, 2007 at 8:31 am
This is all a bunch of Bull Shit. Ryan is a great Guy.
September 12th, 2007 at 3:35 pm
Ryan’s mother is on the board of KNH? Is not Mordy Tendler’s old stomping ground KNH ?
October 4th, 2007 at 10:24 am
Sheldon Silver is in good with the Tendler’s.
Here is an article about Sheldon Silver from Wikipedia..
In 2005, commentator Bill O’Reilly of the Fox News Channel lambasted Silver for blocking legislation that would mandate restrictions on child molesters after their sentences are finished (including possibly forcing them to become permanent residents in psychiatric wards). “He stopped legislation that would have tracked the most dangerous sex offenders with electronic devices, and that would have mandated that communities be notified of sex offenders,” O’Reilly said. “Everyone should know that Sheldon Silver is blocking legislation that would protect children and be tougher on sex offenders. That’s why we call this man the worst politician in office today.” [13]
“Oh what a tangled web we weave
When first we practice to deceive.” - Sir Walter Scott (Marmion, 1808)